Sorry, I was not trying to "convince you," but to educate you on things and attitudes you may not have had contact with before. There is a big difference between religious "witnessing" or educating, and "proselytizing" or brow-beating someone into accepting your way of thinking. My mother and I are vehemently against that! And saying "Native American" without qualifying that by naming the nation, and even groups within that nation, says nothing because of the variations of belief and practices within that society, even by family. Just as there are as many colcannon recipes as there are families in Ireland, the same is true in Native American Nations, Bands, and families with regard to their beliefs and practices as each family chooses what practices from their heritage traditions they keep and incorporate into modern beliefs or even to Christian beliefs they choose to adopt.

You are right in that a potent bond is established with an animal that you personally kill (in any way). At least for most of us this is true, because we have not become jaded with the taking of a life. It affects us deeply and stays with us for a long time. However, the bond with a wild hunted animal is completely different from the bond we share with animals we hand raised. It is widely considered more appropriate to sacrifice a domestic animal we hand raised, but in rare occurrences of an unblemished animal that is hunted, the most prized cuts of the meat are given in offering to the deities.

I do think you may be taking the word "perfect" as I have used it a little TOO literally though. "Without (visible) blemish or fault" is the usual requirement for a sacrifice, thus why I have stated repeatedly "without blemish, disease, or parasites" as considered "naturally perfect" as opposed to "literally perfect" as (and I agree with you on this point) literal perfection does not exist in anything no matter what it is because everyone has their own idea of what is perfect And no, the rats and mice you describe are not perfect in any way as they are artificially altered against their natural state. There are some who believe in going to more detailed and exacting standards than simply "without blemish, disease, or parasites, but that is not necessarily "required."

We must each learn and determine our own path and belief system. This usually changes through the years as we learn and experience more. That is the purpose of this discussion thread, to learn from each other. To be honest, I have enjoyed this discussion, as I do with many such discussions. In talking about our personal stances on issues, we learn from one another, and are exposed to sources of information new to us, then we can take that knowledge and apply it to change or greater affirm our position on the matter. It is sometimes difficult for people to talk about such things without taking the comments personally. My statements were not directed at any one person, only the practices and belief itself. Reading through all the statements posted so far, we all have much more in common than we have in opposition to one another in practice.

Taking the information I have offered as a personal attack upon your own beliefs is also a bit excessive, as it appears in your responses. What I have stated in my posts are not a matter of personal opinion, but are points of fact as I have researched and educated myself on a large number of beliefs through independent study and research since as early as six years of age and taught by my mother and others since earlier than that. Please understand the difference between factual research and matters of opinion. **smiles**

I am a firm believer in citing my sources. Some of my sources that I can share with you include: The Cheyenne, by John H. Moore (Professor of Anthropology at the University of Florida, who lived with the Northern and Southern Cheyenne in the early 1970's, and was approved to be taught by an elder in the community.), Dog Soldiers, Bear Men, and Buffalo Women, also released as Plains Indians, by Thomas E. Mails, and The Sixth Grandfather: Black Elk's Teachings Given to John G. Neihardt ;and of course the Old Testament in The Bible where it talks about sacrifices (Exodus 29). These should be available on Amazon or Alibris and easily obtainable. I can offer additional sources as well if necessary from other cultures.

As I said in this comment here --> [link] it is the fact that our society is so divorced from our food that people view sacrifices as evil when they are not. I was raised with quite a mixed bag of things: My mother is Southern Baptist and she also raised me with our Cheyenne heritage beliefs, my parents took me to Black Powder Rendezvous and I grew up going to Pow Wows. We had friends who had working animals such as horses, dogs, and cats, as well as food animals like cattle, chickens, and rabbits. I knew very well where my food came from and how it gets from the pasture to the table, every stage of it. As an adult I got into Midieval Recreationism and while at a demonstration event, I was utterly shocked to see a 10 year old girl standing there with a horror stricken look on her face when she was told (by someone in character) that the meat being prepared came from a cow that was no longer able to produce milk. **facepalms** It was then that I realized how blindly segrigated from our food sources we have become as a society, slowly brainwashed into obedient unthinking sheep following what authority figures tell us and forbidding us anything that is not on their "approved list".

Offerings are things we give that are part of daily life, such as a plate of food, a poem or prayer we wrote, incense, stones, and similar items. Sacrifices are things we give that come at a cost to us, such as money or an animal. Offerings and sacrifices are both equally important and both must be carefully prepared and kept sacred for their intended purpose. An animal sacrifice in my mind is where a cherished animal, usually a prized and well cared for food animal, is gently taken, prepared in ritual, quickly and cleanly killed, its blood gathered in a special vessel and placed upon an altar for the ritual, then its meat carved and cooked carefully and with deep prayer for a ritual feast, then its hide is specially tended and tanned for ritual purposes (from use as an altar covering to being made into ritual garb, medicine bundles and shields, and other sacred items), and the bones carved and made into ritual tools and fetish items. Thus unlike a general food animal killed for every day purpose, the sacrificial animal is exceptionally well cared for, protected from injury, illness, and parasites, and kept as clean and well tended as possible for the life of the animal to keep it pure and suitable for the sacrifice. This was done in biblical times as well as long before Christianity came into being, and it is the right and proper way to do it.

Now that is not to say that other animals are not well cared for, only that the intended sacrifice is given extra special care to keep it as clean and pure as possible, literally over and above what we do for our so very important food animals and our beloved companion animals, or even for ourselves. The word sacrifice should not be treated as a dirty word, but treated as it should be, a word for a sacred act that is over and above our daily or weekly offerings.